My personal response to '15 things not to say to a recovering fundamentalist'

There is a post on a blog called “Defeating the Dragons” that is doing the rounds of recovering fundamentalist groups at the moment. It is being shared very frequently, and it is doing so because it was very well written and because its words struck a chord with so many of those who are in various stages of recovering from a time within fundamentalist Christianity. One of the reasons that it has struck such a chord, I believe, is because the 15 things that are listed as those that should never be said to one of us are those things that fundamentalists say to us over and over again, which is a very frustrating situation.

When I saw this post I wanted to share it myself, but felt that I couldn’t do so. The original post was, at times, written from the point of somebody who has left Christianity altogether, which I have not done. If I were to link to the original post without an explanation, I would merely be opening myself to further attacks, which is something I would like to avoid.

So in this post I would like to list those 15 things to never say to a recovering fundamentalist with notes as to how these apply to me. The original post can be found here, and I would encourage you to go to the original and read it in its entirety.

1.    "You just need to work through your bitterness." Ah. The ‘bitter’ card. This one has been hurled at pretty much anybody who has ever voiced a concern about a fundamentalist pastor. It is such a prevalent statement that it features on the fundy bingo card. The original blog post answered this one quite well, and I would especially like to draw attention to the note about gaslighting.

2.     "Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater." This is one that I would answer slightly differently to the original blog post. This one was originally worded as though it were spoken to a person who is no longer a Christian, with the speaker claiming that while fundamentalism is wrong in places, Christianity as a whole is good, and shouldn’t be discarded. Strangely enough, I have also heard this phrase despite never letting go of Christianity. In my case, it was worded as, “Ok, fundamentalism exhibits some heresies/abuses that you’ve noted and cannot be defended, but fundamentalism as a whole shouldn’t be discarded. Put aside your kjv and wear trousers if you must, but don’t forget that a man is the head of a household/homosexuality is evil/women shouldn’t speak in church,” or whatever the case may be. To this I would say that the recovering fundamentalist is aware that for some time, maybe years of their lives, perhaps their entire formative years, other people have been controlling their beliefs on many issues regarding religion, morality, and politics. We’re not interested in others continuing to control us anymore. You will find a group of many varied beliefs in the recovering fundamentalist group; some still very conservative Christians, some liberal Christians, some have joined many different denominations, some have become atheist or agnostic. There are so many differences because we’re not being controlled externally anymore. Some of us, yes, do believe the bible – but we don’t necessarily believe that it means the same thing that you’ve always believed it does.

3.    "You were never really a Christian." – This is one I’ve never really heard much, because it is generally reserved for those who have left Christianity altogether. It is generally spoken by someone who believes ‘once saved always saved,’ and cannot reconcile themselves to the fact that somebody who was once as Christian as they are is now no longer identifying as not being saved. I have heard somebody speak quite angrily against those who have left Christianity because of the way they were treated in fundamentalism. My answer to that is that they should be focused on loving somebody who was so wounded, without thought to try and convert them. I also believe that somebody who feels strongly should be focused on cleaning up fundamentalism (if that is possible) so that so less people would be getting hurt in the first place.

I have actually been told recently that I couldn’t possibly be a Christian because I dared to think differently as to what the bible said on a topic. Funnily enough, the topic wasn’t even one of the essentials of the Christian faith. I didn’t question the virgin birth, the divinity of Christ, our fallen state, our need for salvation, or the redemptive power of Jesus’ blood. I disagreed on a non-essential doctrine, and my salvation was questioned. This is a controlling tactic, which goes back to point 2.

4.      "If you’re not currently attending church, you have walked away from God." – This one completely fails to comprehend the level of pain and hurt that the recovering fundamentalist often deals with. Not to mention it places undue emphasis on one understanding of the meaning of one verse in the bible: Hebrews 10:25 ‘forsake not the assembling of yourselves together.’ That verse is often used to defend the idea that Christians must be in church weekly. According to the IFB, three times a week. However, it could simply mean that Christians need to keep in fellowship with other Christians. There are times when a Christian honestly cannot attend church. Most reasonable Christians could understand that a person who is hospitalised cannot currently attend church. Well, a person who has just left a fundamentalist church may well also not be able to attend church. It can be a very triggering experience. Besides this, it can be very important for them to take some time out of church before they commit to another church. If they don’t, they could easily end up in another abusive church without even realising it. Taking some time out, learning about the signs of abusive churches (many recommend the book, “the subtle power of spiritual abuse” by David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen), and perhaps visiting several very different churches without committing to one in order to learn about the many commonalities within Christianity can be helpful. Taking some time out for themselves to heal and make friends outside of the church environment can be important too. Many of us find we don’t have that much in the way of social contact outside of church, and it isn’t good to be so unbalanced that if a church experience goes sour we lose all relationships at the same time. Yes, continuing contact with Christians who are being encouraging and accepting is important. Regular church attendance at one specific church can take a hiatus.

5.     "You need to work this out with trembling and fear." – I honestly don’t think I’ve come across this one, so I would refer you to the original blog post to read its response. This one seems to be an isolating attack – this problem, whatever it is, is something you need to do on your own. It also seems to have a bit of a hook added to it – that it’s something that, if you get it wrong, will come back to bite you. How much better is it to simply honestly approach the question?

6.   "I wish people just knew that if they remembered how good Jesus’ love for us is, these things wouldn't seem so hard!" – Ouch. This is another one that the original blog answered well. To that, I would add: If Jesus loves us so much, why is his church causing so much pain, and why isn’t he doing anything about it? I have recently read an article about a Youth Pastor who raped boys and is spending exactly 0 days in prison as a result. 0. When you see monsters who use God to destroy lives absolutely getting away with it, then it is really, really hard to believe in Jesus’ love. When you see that pastor who has covered up multiple cases of child sex abuse not even being charged for it, not even being removed from the pulpit, you wonder how much Jesus could actually love us. This is the point that nearly pushed me away from Christianity. It is the point that still gets me sometimes. This is the point that it would really, really be a good idea to not throw at me. Ever.

7.     "Why do you have to criticise the church? Do you hate Christians?" – This was answered perfectly in the blog post. I would just like to add that there is a current belief within fundamentalism that the Christian church is constantly being attacked and is under threat because the world hates them. Often you’ll see a fundamentalist pastor go do something that he knows is illegal so that when he’s arrested he can cry ‘persecution’. There is a major difference between receiving criticism because somebody irrationally hates you and because your own genuine problems deserve criticism.

8.      "Quoting Jeremiah 29:11. Or Romans 8:28. Or pretty much any hand-picked verse about God working everything out." - Ah proof texting. Again, answered perfectly in the original blog post.

9.      "You’re hurting the church. We need unity, not division." - For starters, unity doesn't mean that everybody believes exactly the same in everything. It just means that we’re all going in the same direction. Which an awful lot of denominations that fundamentalists don’t like are doing. Besides this, if it is hurting the church so much when somebody is pointing out its flaws, then turn around and deal with the issues. Don’t just heap blame on those who have already been wounded.

10.  "I’m a/my church is fundamentalist, and I’m/we’re not anything like what you’re describing." – answered beautiful by the original blog. Especially the last point.

11.   "If you are truly seeking God in this time, he will lead you to the Truth." – Seems like a disgustingly cheap way of simply saying, “I’m right and you’re wrong, and if you’re really a good person you’ll eventually work this out.”

12.   "Fundamentalism isn’t really Christianity." – I’ve mostly spoken with people who identify as being fundamentalists, so they would instead say that those crazy fundamentalists aren’t really Christians, which I guess is more like number 10. I would like to believe with this point in that I would like to believe that those people of any denomination who claim Christ while killing/raping/abusing/stealing or whatever are unsaved, and just sociopaths who use religion to trap gullible victims. I would really, really like to believe that. We’ll see.

13.   "Be careful you don’t lose your faith." – A thinly veiled threat. If you believe differently to us, you’ll go to Hell and burn forever where there is no water to parch your thirst and no end to the worms that consume your body. If a person’s faith is that easy to lose, then perhaps you’ve never given them enough reason to believe in the first place. Perhaps your working out of your faith lacked sincerity and compassion. Perhaps you spent so much time arguing the non-essentials of the faith that the essentials were never properly addressed. Perhaps you should focus on listening to the person who is talking to you and thinking about whether or not their concerns are valid, rather than simply switching them off with a *phew* I’m so glad MY salvation is secure.

14.   "I’ll pray for you." – Answered perfectly on the original blog.

15.   "Your critiques of Christianity aren’t valid, because you’re just confusing it with your fundamentalist background." – I don’t know what to say to this one. I would possibly have a very different experience to the author of the original blog here because I don’t think that fundamentalism is just intensified Christianity. I think that it is Christianity where someone has taken the genuine idea of salvation through faith but then taken and twisted every part of the bible that could be used to control and manipulate people. I refuse to believe that God is an evil God, which means I guess that I now read the bible slightly differently to those in my old IFB church. Yes I believe that there are Christians in fundamentalist churches – the gospel is still presented – but I believe that much of what is taught is not Christian. That is where I am at at the moment. I recognise that this is my individual walk and just because this is where I am not does not mean that this is where I will be in the future.

Submission

I would like to start this blog entry with an apology. I have no idea whether or not there will be any posts on this blog besides this one. I don't really intend to start writing regularly. There is a particular issue I've been thinking about lately that I would like to share. If I have anything that really presses on my mind in future, I'll come back.

The other thing that concerns me is that there are some people who, in reading this, may get offended. Then I realized that the people who get offended by what I have to say are likely to refuse to read a woman's writing in the first place, so I decided that I don't really have to worry about that.

Submission. There's a loaded word.

I used to attend an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church. That's a mouthful. Those who've left that particular church often shorten it to the IFB. 

While I was attending this church I met a lady. She seemed like a nice lady, but she acted strangely around her husband. I have tried to give an explanation about what exactly bothered me about her behavior but I can't quite put my finger on it. However, after frequent interactions with this woman I said to a friend that I was concerned about her. I thought that maybe her husband is abusing her, and I didn't know how to broach the subject with her.

“Oh, I know,” the friend replied. “There's some abuse going on, but she believes that she's serving God by submitting to her husband.”

Submit.

I heard that another man I knew personally wrote that according to the bible, a woman was to submit to her abusive husband unto death.

Submit.

In the past, when I have brought up the issue of wifely submission with some concerns, I have been told, “it doesn't matter what you think, it's what the bible says that matters.”

Does the bible really teach that women are to submit to their abusive husbands, even if it kills them?

Reading from the ESV, Ephesians 5:22 says, “Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.”

But wait – why did I start reading at verse 22? That seems strange. The book of Ephesians was written as a letter to a group of people. It was one coherent piece of writing. The chapter and verse markings were added in much later. And then, even after that, someone was nice enough to make my bible nice and easy to read by writing the words “Wives and Husbands” just before verse 22. Just so, if I was to look at how I, as a wife, should treat my husband, I would know right where to start reading.

Or would I?

Let's go back a little bit. The entirety of chapter five has to do with how Christians should behave. Verse 21 specifically states, “submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.”

Woah.

I had always thought that submission was something that women were to do to the men in their lives. But here we have an utterance of the word 'submitting' that is addressed to Christianity in whole. Submitting to one another.

What does one another mean? Presumably, to other Christians. Each other. Women submitting to men. Men submitting to men. Men submitting to women. I honestly believe that this verse is trying to establish a level playing field among Christianity. Yes, governments and other religions have hierarchies. They have the chosen few enjoying life at the expense of those weaker than them. But it should not be so among you.

Thinking back to some of the more recent scandals that are happening within fundamentalism, I cannot help but wonder if they would have happened had the pastors of those churches been willing to submit to their fellow believers, rather than puff themselves up with pride.

So, Christians are to submit to each other. And then, in verse 22, it says, yes, that women are to submit to their own husband. At no point in time does it say that men now are exempt from 'submitting to one another'. But women are to submit to their own husband.

Then we come, of course, to the counter verse, verse 25. “Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her...” I have often heard this verse being glossed over. “Husbands, love your wives; WIVES, SUBMIT!” Either that, or I have heard this verse to justify using verse 22 to teach women to submit to their husbands as a one-sided affair. Because of course, if a man truly loves his wife in a self-sacrificing manner, then he will never use his authority over her to harm her.

From what I've seen of fundamentalist Christianity, that's a pretty big if.

Why on earth would the writer be telling men to love their wives? That's easy, right? Well, I strongly suspect that the region and time period that these Christians were living in was largely misogynistic. If the people lived in a culture that rarely treated women well, it would make sense that the men had to be reminded to show love to their wives.  I'm not coming out and saying this is what happened, but it seems like a reasonable suggestion.

When I read the whole chapter, it actually seems to me that the writer is placing the larger burden on the husbands. Christians, submit to one another. Wives, submit to your own husbands. Husbands, you're not off the hook on that whole submission thing, but now you have to remember to love your wives as well.

Back to the original question: Should a christian woman submit to an abusive husband? I found it interesting to go back and read from verse 7:

“Therefore do not become partners with them; for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible, for anything that becomes visible is light.”

I think we've been asking the wrong question. Why are we being overly concerned with how a woman is to treat an abusive husband? Shouldn't we be more concerned with the unfruitful works that is the abuse itself? Should we be taking part in such works of darkness by seeking to cover them up and allow them to continue? Or should we expose them?

A man or a woman who is abusing people, especially in a criminal sense, is not honoring God. It is not Godly to continue to cover their deeds and support them in that.